Q&A with John Scorse

Winning Post’s Paul Richards chats with John Scorse, the Sydney boy who rose to fame riding WA sprinters.

PR: John, it’s 36 years (1987) since you won the then Marlboro Cup (now Rupert Clarke Stakes) on Western Pago. Do you remember the day?

JS: I certainly do, Paul. I’ve got a beautiful big photo on my wall at home here of him leading. In the background is Mick Dittman on Our Waverley Star, Darren Gauci on Cold Hearted and Jim Cassidy on Society Bay. So, I’ reminded of it every day.

Western Pago was a WA visitor. Were you confident?

Yes, I’d already won twice on him over there. A fortnight before the race he’d won the Farnley Quality over 1400m in 1:21.01, which was a hundredth of a second outside Daybreak Lover’s then Australian record for the trip. He had 57kg and was dropping to 55kg for the Marlboro Cup.

What about in the run?

Well, I have to say, Paul, I gave him a pretty good steer. It was one of my best ever rides. I was midfield near the rails and I knew you didn’t want to be near the fence at Caulfield as you can be stuck there forever. It still happens now. There was a horse over from Adelaide called Baptize, who’d been caught three wide. As we came down the side of the track I made up my mind that on the turn I was going to go inside him. I knew he’d be tiring and I could edge my way into the clear. It worked out perfectly — he got through and won well.

I see he was backed from 9/2 ($5.50) to 3/1 ($4) and apparently half a million dollars was taken out of the bookies ring.

I think he might have got in to 9/4 ($3.25) actually. They didn’t miss. In those days, there wasn’t as much form around as there is now. Some guys had access to it, but it wasn’t available to everybody. There were a bunch of guys over from Perth who had a good handle on the form, and I think what also happened was that the Victorian punters tended to underrate horses or jockeys who didn’t ride in Melbourne.

You must have been thrilled after the win.

Well, I was, but it turned out to be the last time I rode him and rode for his trainer, Wally Mitchell.

What happened?

I got the blame for the plunge. Wally liked to have a bet. He didn’t put much on — he’d say have $1000 on at 5/1 ($6) and didn’t care if someone else had $30,000 on at 9/2 ($5.50). But if he missed the 5/1, he wasn’t happy. Ad he didn’t get on Western Pago at the best price. One bloke I knew reckons he had a thousand on at 7/1 each-way, but apparently he sent others to Melbourne to back him. I don’t think anyone has ever told the truth about who was betting and how much they put on.

How did you find out you’d been sacked?

We had Placid Ark in Melbourne also and I stuck around to work him. After his gallop on the Wednesday before he was to resume in the Rupert Steele Stakes at Flemington, Wally told me I’d got the sack and I wouldn’t be riding him.

How did you feel?

It broke my heart completely. It took a long time to come to terms with it. No matter how hard I tried to bury it, I couldn’t. I went back to where I was staying and just sat on the bed for a few days before going to see Dad at Mollymook on the south coast of New South Wales. I watched Placid Ark win the Rupert Steele in the Mollymook Golf Club feeling very sorry for myself.

Oh dear. And he kept winning.

Yep. He won the Moir Stakes on Cox Plate day at his next start. I’ll never forget VRC Oaks day, when Placid Ark was running in the Linlithgow Stakes. I had three rides at Toodyay, which is an hour from Perth. As Melbourne was three hours ahead, I listened to him win while driving to the races. All my mounts were 25/1 and had no chance of winning. Here I was driving there while the horse I loved was winning at Flemington on Oaks day. The boys in the jockeys’ room were giving it to me and having a bit of fun with it. I played along, but then when I got in the car to drive home, it hit me like a freight train. The tears were just streaming down my face. I’ve told that story to plenty of young jockeys since when they complain about having a bad day. I say, “That’s nothing. Getting taken off the best sprinter in the land and having to ride three no-hopers in the bush instead, that’s a bad day.”

How was it between you and Wally afterwards?

We didn’t really talk for quite a long time.

And now?

Last time I spoke to him we were all right. I’d love to sit down and have a beer with him now though. We shared something pretty special. He put me on the horse, and he can take me off. There were plenty of people after I got beaten on Placid Ark early on who thought I should have been given the flick then, but he stuck with me. I can get cranky over it all, and have been, but the reality is Placid Ark was a champion and between us we created racing history when we won the Lightning Stakes, Oakleigh Plate and Newmarket Handicap within a month. Schillaci is the only other horse to do it. He was a champion, but I’d suggest Placid Ark beat better horses than he did. Schillaci went on with it, which counts against Placid Ark’s place among the greats.

He must have been some horse. When did you first realise he was above average?

It would have been the first time I rode him in a race (Belmont, October 1986). He was a very lazy track worker. I didn’t have an opinion at all heading into the gates that day. When he walked into the barrier he just stood there as quiet as anything. I was thinking, “Is this horse even going to jump with them?” Then the gates opened and he just took off like a shot out of a cannon. He sat outside the leader, but he was about a length and a half clear. We couldn’t cross, so I just sat there, then when I asked him to go in the straight, I’ll never forget it, he just left them standing and won easily.

He won three of his next five before heading for a break and then a trip to Flemington for the Lightning Stakes (1987). Were you confident heading into that race?

He had a jumpout down the straight on the Tuesday before and he had the blinkers on for the first time. He just towed me down the straight and won easily. Wally was flying in that morning, so I went and picked him up from the airport. He asked how he went in the jumpout and I was just blubbering like an idiot, I was that excited. He asked, “How much did he have left?” I took a few seconds and thought about it. It was a lightbulb moment — I realised then how good he was. I said, “The whole lot.”

He was a 7/1 chance in the Lightning Stakes — amazing when you think about it now.

He drew near the inside and they weren’t sure how that part of the track was going to race. It hadn’t been that good the previous spring and it was the first race back. We ended up winning easily. Colin Hayes had Special, who most thought would win. She came down the outside and we beat her comfortably. People were saying the only reason we won was because we were on different parts of the straight. They weren’t saying that after the Oakleigh Plate though.

What happened there?

Michael Clarke (on Special) planned to go toe-to-toe with us, so he pushed forward to try and sit outside us, but we dropped her at the 600m mark, and I reckon broke her heart. That was his best win. I remember the late and great Deane Lester saying it was the best sprinting win he’d ever seen.

And were you confident heading into the Newmarket? He had 55kg, which was a kilo over weight-for-age for a three-year-old, and no horse had ever completed the treble.

After the Oakleigh Plate I was on television with Roy Higgins and Keith Hillier, who were talking about the penalty he was likely to get for his wins. I said, “If he gets the maximum four kilos it would be a bit hard to win, but three kilos won’t stop him.” Wally wasn’t happy with me after that. Jim Bowler (the handicapper) gave him three kilos, but we were too strong again.

He then went to Sydney.

Yes, he won the Canterbury Stakes. Then it was a month into The Galaxy. Wally went away for a holiday on Hamilton Island and left me in charge, with instructions not to do too much with him. So I didn’t, but he just kept eating and ended up getting quite fat. He needed some hard work, but I was too scared to give him any as I’d been told not to. I was trying to get in touch with Wally, but this was before mobile phones, so we had no luck. We ended up arranging an exhibition gallop, but the other horse pulled out and he had to gallop on his own. He ran the last 600m in 37.4, which was too slow. He went into The Galaxy, he was still a bit big and unfortunately his condition gave out. We conceded Princely Heart seven kilos and he caught us on the line. He came back to scale and would have blown a house down he was puffing that much. It was a very frustrating day. I was Sydney born and bred and desperately wanted to win a big race in my home town but we just missed. It broke my heart, actually.

How were you when he broke down badly and had to be put down a year and a bit later?

I hadn’t been on him, of course, but I still loved him and the owners. It was awful when I heard the news. He was such a big horse, he was always putting a lot of pressure on his joints. I remember sitting next to him for half an hour after every gallop with a hose and pouring cold water on to his joints. There were no ice boots in those days. Sadly, it was no shock when he broke down.

Do you get asked about him much these days?

Yeah, I do. I worked for Sky Channel for 15 years, so there were lots of people at the races wanting to talk about him. There were a few times when young jockeys who were a bit cocky would ask, “Did you ever ride?” I’d say, “Yeah, I rode a double at Cooma and Queanbeyan,” and then walk off. Someone would tell them about Placid Ark and they’d come back and want to chat about him.

What have you done since finishing up at Sky?

I’ve enjoyed not travelling around as much. Often it was a three-hour drive to a track, then a seven-hour day at the races and then three hours home again. I loved the work, but once I finished I realised how much it took out of me. These days I work three days a week at Thoroughbred Park in Canberra, just helping out with horses going through the barriers or occasionally walking them through the pool. I also do some tipping for topsport.com.au, so I’m still involved.

John, thanks for talking me through the Placid Ark and Western Pago years.

No worries, Paul. I got a big kick out of coming back and winning the Marlboro Cup on Western Pago. I felt there was bit of an asterisk on me that all my Group 1 wins had been on a champion in Placid Ark. To win on another horse was a big thing. And to talk about Placid Ark, well, I’ll do that all day. Cheers.