Giorgio Chiellini on MLS Cup, retirement and a possible return to Juventus
With the scrapes and cuts on his knees to show for it, LAFC defender Giorgio Chiellini has just rushed in from training. He greets The Athletic with the same enthusiasm he greets club staff and his teammates — or, famously, Jordi Alba at the halfway line minutes before Italy’s victorious semi-final penalty shootout against Spain. It’s clear the nine-time Serie A winner is enjoying life in Los Angeles and expects to be here until at least next summer, with his children in school. Whether he’ll continue playing beyond this season, however, is still up in the air.
This Saturday, LAFC travel to Ohio to face the Columbus Crew in the MLS Cup final — the second time they have reached the league’s title game in as many years. It is also Chiellini’s final game under contract, with the prospect of retirement looming. He’s still an important player, featuring in 28 games across all competitions for LAFC, including all four playoff matches, and is expected to start again this weekend. But before he goes, the 39-year-old has the chance to add another trophy to his cabinet, and he’s not taking his eye off a potential 25th winners medal.
A preview of Saturday’s final is one of several topics he speaks about during the following interview, including the challenges for European players coming to MLS, the potential for European leagues to adopt the American format, a possible return to Juventus and more.
Here is Chiellini on a legendary 23-year career in professional football…
More than a year on from your first MLS Cup, you’re back there again after a long season. Are you feeling confident for the final against the Columbus Crew on Saturday?
It’s going to be a nice match, especially for fans. For us as players, it will be a tough game because they’re very good at playing in possession and finding the right pockets, but they also have lots of pace and are dangerous in transition. If we are too spread out, or we concede space when we try to attack, they can hurt us. We are right here because we know all our strengths and weaknesses, and I expect a tight game unless an early goal opens it up a little bit. I don’t expect it to be five-four!
They have a top coach (Wilfried Nancy). He surprised me last year in Montreal, I didn’t know him before, to be honest. They had good players, but he was able to raise their level, and the same this year in Columbus. Particularly after selling (Lucas) Zelarayan, they found a solution straight away in Diego Rossi. They arrive into this game and into the playoffs in good condition.
What about you? You’re 39 now and coming into potentially your final season before retirement, and the constant and long travel in MLS must take its toll?
European players often arrive to MLS in July because of the calendar, and the first year is tough. The second year is much more easy. I’m feeling much better this season than I did during the second part of last season. I remember last year, my first game was in Nashville, and it was 100 degrees. For me, it was the first game of the new season because I finished with Juventus at the beginning of June and had a break. Usually, I have the preseason to manage the load, but here everyone was flying because they were in mid-season shape – the best shape of the season.
Do you think Saturday will be your final game before retirement?
I don’t know, to be honest. The club is very open to me, and that’s important to me. I have to talk with the family and understand our goals. But I’ll stay in Los Angeles until June next year for sure. We’ll see.
Do you speak to players back home about coming to MLS? What do they ask about?
Yes, of course. They ask me about the differences. The life, the ways football is different. It’s very different, starting from the format. Having the playoffs changes your season because you can manage a little bit more what is important. Once the playoffs come, the light switches for everyone and the occasion is different. The games are less open, and there’s much more concentration. In Europe, it’s different. If there are three games remaining of the season and we are six points ahead for the title, we have the advantage. Here, it only means home advantage in the playoffs.
Do you like the playoff format? Do you think it could ever work in Europe?
They have it in the (English) Championship, and in Italy, we have the same. I don’t know about putting the playoffs in the top leagues, I think it’s hard now, but it’s very spectacular. Maybe we could start next season for a Europe spot or a relegation spot? We could try and figure out something to make the season more exciting in the last part.
Maybe England is different, I know Manchester City have won some leagues in a row, but the turnover is more often. But in Italy, we won for nine years, Bayern is similar in Germany; it’s always Real Madrid or Barcelona in Spain. PSG in France. Maybe there can be something like the playoffs to manage a little bit against this type of supremacy.
The playoffs have been good to you and LAFC since you’ve come, but Federico Bernadeschi and Lorenzo Insigne, your former teammates, have struggled since coming to Toronto. What do you make of their time in North America?
I was lucky to be chosen by this club, and I was smart to come. They arrived in MLS with a lot of expectations, but unfortunately, for many reasons that I cannot know very well, they have not been able to show their value, and they’ve created this type of legacy with the team. I think it’s difficult in this type of season, and arriving in this position, because you start to bring what you’ve done on the field home with you. It’s not easy to separate these things. I hope they can redeem themselves in the future, but I don’t know what will happen next season. They are good players, and in the right environment, and the right team, they could make a difference in this league.
Do you think it’s been an issue of struggling to adapt to the culture? Obviously Insigne is from Napoli, which is a very different culture and climate to Toronto.
We’re not just players; we’re humans with families. It’s a big move from Italy to here. I think the style of play Lorenzo was encouraged to play in was very different to what suited him. Maybe if he was able to play that tiki-taka? Columbus would have been perfect because he could find a lot of short passes to find his spots. The style wasn’t right for him. Federico had a small surgery at the end of last season; this season, he played better. But I think when you start to lose and lose and lose it’s very hard to lift the spirit.
They both played a part in what you’ve described as your biggest achievement, captaining Italy to Euro 2020. You’ve qualified again for the tournament next summer, but where are Italy now? Do you make them contenders?
We’re in a new cycle with a new coach, and I think the future is bright. We don’t have superstars, but we didn’t have that when we won last time. We had a solid block in the middle, between me and Leo (Bonucci) and Jorginho and (Marco) Verratti, (Nicolo) Barella was growing up and (Gianluigi) Donnarumma. We were solid. We arrived at that tournament with almost 30 undefeated, and that’s not just those players; we changed a lot of players during that time. It takes a collective.
I expected to arrive at the quarter-final before the tournament, and we started the group very well. Having the fans in Italy after COVID, it was only 15,000, but it was huge for us. We got through the group well, we were a bit lucky with Austria, but after that, we arrived where we wanted to arrive. Then we could enjoy it.
In this new cycle, (Alessandro) Bastoni has taken your spot as the left-sided centre-back with Italy under Luciano Spalletti. What do you make of him? Do you think he has the potential to be one of the best in Europe?
He is very different to me, but he has huge potential. Technically, I could compare him to Bonucci. A little bit different, but that type of high-quality player. He has improved since he was trained by (Antonio) Conte on defending and consistency, but he is only 24. He could be top five or top 10, for sure. That’s huge for Italy because we always have a spine.
I would say the spine is a little weaker now than it was a couple of years ago.
We are leaving Verratti at home because we are trying to start a new cycle, but he’s still one of the best in the world. I hope, like Jorginho, that he can come back because he is the right player for the coach. Then our midfield is really good, Jorginho, (Marco) Verratti, (Nicolo) Barella, (Manuel) Locatelli, (Lorenzo) Pellegrini, (Davide) Frattesi. We miss the No 9, but I don’t think we need one. Ciro (Immobile) is still a good striker, and we have the new generation with (Giacomo) Raspadori and (Gianluca) Scamacca — I hope someone can arrive in good shape next summer. We have a good team, and I’m confident the coach will bring a new spirit.
You mention Scamacca, who played for West Ham United in the Premier League last year. There’s often a perception that Italian players don’t tend to succeed in England — what do you make of that?
Playing in England is very hard for everyone because physically, you have to be more than 100 per cent. It’s much better than any other league in the world. Very few players can adapt in a short time. They don’t give time to players, especially young players. Gianluca has played just one year in Sassuolo, and to find consistency is tough. He’s a very good player, and he deserves a little bit more time and confidence from the team, but I understand you cannot wait for players because you need to win. If you have another player who is better at that moment, they have to play.
So it’s not a culture thing, then?
No, I don’t think so. It would have been the same if Scamacca went to Juventus or Inter or Milan, he needed time. Probably in Italy, it’s easier because he knows the league, but West Ham are on the same level as the best team in Serie A. Have you seen (Chris) Smalling or (Fikayo) Tomori or (Ruben) Loftus-Cheek? Physically they are three times better than most players in Italy. Physically they have a supremacy that can permit them to destroy the opponents. That’s not something that is easy to figure out.
Did you ever come close to playing in England?
Not so close. I think in my prime, it would have been my perfect league, but you cannot go there after your prime. It’s so hard. It’s a very physical league, and you have to be at the top of your game. I don’t know how Thiago Silva is still playing there.
Many of your teammates speak about you as an on-the-field coach, but that’s not what you want to do post-retirement, is it?
My aspiration is to work more in management. I have a degree in economics and an MBA in football. The coaching takes such dedication to the job, and I don’t feel that now.
I assume working for Juventus is what you see in the future, right?
Yeah. I don’t want to be a liar — in my future, I see Juventus. I don’t know in what position, but it’s somewhere where I have spent almost half of my life. I’m still really connected to every one of them and I’m very happy they’re doing a good season. I’m looking forward to getting back to the stadium and watching them over the Christmas break, but I’m in no rush. I’m enjoying my life here with my family.
They’ve done well to bounce back this year after such a tough season last year, on and off the field. Do you fancy Juventus to push Inter for the Scudetto?
They are more consistent in the league this year; that was their weakness last year. We’ll see if they are able to stay close to Inter by March. Maybe if Inter go far in the Champions League, they will be able to catch them. But it will be hard, the favourite now is Inter, and the underdogs are the other teams.
And they’ve got two USMNT internationals helping to get them there! Have you been impressed with Timothy Weah and Weston McKennie this season?
They are both lovely, lovely guys. I’ve met Tim, and I know Weston very well. Tim’s had some injuries that have not permitted him to be consistent, but Weston has been strong. I’m so happy he’s earned a position and minutes in the team because he’s a good guy. I think the new generation of Americans are ready to play in Europe. I don’t know if they are ready to compete by 2026 (at the World Cup), and the problem by 2030 is that they will have a new generation with the older generation not at the same level. It’s not easy to figure out the group, then. But they have a good young team who are capable of having a good World Cup at home.
